PrimoCache for Older Laptop--Will it help me?

[bilateral]

Hi, would appreciate input on how well PrimoCache would work for my situation, and how best to add and use it.

I have an older Toshiba laptop that is still enjoyable to use--except when it is really slow.
Limitations: Core 2 Duo; 4 Gig DDR2 Ram--maxxed out; fairly weak graphics; Hard to change HDD.

We had a 500 Gig WD Black 7200 RPM drive installed when we bought it, so it's pretty decent for a spinning drive, and to replace HDD with SSD on this one would mean tearing laptop apart! Also not really worth buying a large SSD for this laptop, which may have limited life remaining.

Recently, I dealt with this as follows: A PLUS on this laptop is inclusion of an ExpressCard slot that will run some devices off of the onboard PCI-e. Laptop also has an SD card slot that is basically USB2 speeds. SO:

For the ExpressCard slot I found a 64 GB SSD--not as fast as many SATA SSD's, but MUCH faster than the HDD. It is not possible to boot off this SSD--but I've found other ways to use it that are very helpful.
--I put a 32 GB ReadyBoost cache on the SSD.
--I also put a 6GB (stable size) paging file on the SSD; I've also tried leaving this paging file as "System Managed." (I still kept a 200 MB paging file on the HDD C: drive, in case the SSD should fail.)
--I also attempted to put cache files for Google Chrome on the SSD. (But this may not be working right.)
--In addition, I put a 2nd ReadyBoost file on a 32 GB SDHC card in the SD slot. Two source files should help ReadyBoost a lot.

The laptop is upgraded to Win 10, now Anniversary Edition.

As I said, all this seemed to help the laptop a lot, but I thought PrimoCache might help me more. So,...if I were to install PrimoCache:

--First of all, do you think it will help more? And second, would I leave the 6 GB paging file and the two 32 GB ReadyBoost files as they are now? Also, should I again try to assure that the Chrome browser cache is set up properly to run off the SSD, or should I let PrimoCache take care of that? (--It probably isn't set up right now, because a new version of Chrome usually resets it. ...Which might be a good reason for me not to try to relocate it.)

I presume I would use part of the SSD as a 2nd Level Cache for PrimoCache. I am not sure how big that Cache should be. Currently, I have about 25 GB left on the SSD, the rest is being used for paging and ReadyBoost. With only 4 GB of DDR2 RAM, I'm not sure it is worth using any of that RAM for other than what Windows wants to do with it.

Thanks so much if you can help.

Michael

[Jaga]

In my opinion, the largest gains for Primocache come only with a decent sized L1 cache in RAM. You're running a new OS on 4gb of RAM, which is starving it to begin with.

The L2 will help, absolutely. But it will never be as fast as it could be with 16gig of RAM and 8gig devoted to a L1 cache. It's just what you're going to have to deal with, having an older system.

I've done many HDD->SSD replacements in my time, and they aren't nearly as hard as you'd think. You just need an external SSD adapter so you can mount it, and then clone the partition(s) across. Once that's done, physically swap the drives, then boot and expand the C: partition to fill the remaining space, and voila. It will be a LOT faster at that point.

If you can swap onto the 64gig SSD and have that be the new internal, it would be the best option overall. Much faster than Primo with a L2 on that externally.

[bilateral]

...The L2 will help, absolutely. But it will never be as fast as it could be with 16gig of RAM and 8gig devoted to a L1 cache. It's just what you're going to have to deal with, having an older system.

Right, that's clear. I am stuck with 4 GB RAM. Would be nice if this system could take more, but it can't. Also, I forgot to say Windows is x64, so supposedly it will use all 4 GB--then one Question I have is whether it is still worthwhile to "steal" a few hundred megabytes of that for PriomCache L1--or just leave Windows with it.

I've done many HDD->SSD replacements in my time, and they aren't nearly as hard as you'd think. You just need an external SSD adapter so you can mount it, and then clone the partition(s) across. Once that's done, physically swap the drives, then boot and expand the C: partition to fill the remaining space, and voila. It will be a LOT faster at that point.

Maybe you didn't read all of what I wrote. None of what you said is hard--I can easily do that. The problem is that this laptop has NO HDD access door in it. The only way to switch out the HDD is to tear the whole laptop apart, not even just remove the keyboard. I would install an SSD if I could easily take it out again and use elsewhere when I'm done with the machine--but this means tearing the laptop apart and putting back together TWICE.

If you can swap onto the 64gig SSD and have that be the new internal, it would be the best option overall. Much faster than Primo with a L2 on that externally.

Not possible. My C: partition needs more than that, let alone the data partition. And as I said earlier, you can't boot from the ExpressCard slot anyway. The BIOS won't let you do it. This SSD is not designed to be a main Drive.

Michael

[Jaga]

Will a few hundred megabytes L1 help? Highly doubtful. You *might* be able to force boot content into it by repeatedly booting over and over, then -lock- the cache content in Primo. But that only helps with boots and device drivers, not the daily running of the laptop.

I understand there is no HDD access door on most laptops, I've been tearing them down as a part of IT support for decades. It's unfortunate to hear though, that it requires a full tear-down to access it. Most laptops don't need full motherboard access and things like heatpipes removed to get to the memory/drive. The decision to either purchase a larger SSD and do that is yours - and it sounds like you've already made it.

So you're left with a L2 on the expresscard slot. If you haven't already installed the trial version of Primo, give it a shot. I would think that disabling Readyboost on the SSD and giving that memory to Primo would help far more. And yes - follow up on Chrome's cache to make sure it's on the other free space on the SSD. This is the official method. You could also consider moving the two Windows temp folders to the SSD, provided they aren't starved of space.

[bilateral]

Thanks, Jaga, some helpful ideas. Do you have any good references for how to move the temp folders to another drive and why to do it?

We have two of these--Toshiba Tecra R10. Thery're hell to tear down, many screws, tight plastic shell, lots of stuff to remove just to get to the HDD. I did change out one. Most laptops I've owned use an easily removable HDD.

Faster booting won't help us. We tend to use sleep and hibernate as long as we can get away with it. So we seldom reboot. I'm thinking that speeding up cache files, etc. would help most. Thanks for the link on relocating Chrome cache--same info I've seen elsewhere. But I think every time Chrome updates to a new version, it wipes the cache and moves it back to default location. That's why I'm wondering if PrimoCache will handle this part easier.

I will try Primocache. I'm asking here to determine best use for this situation--it's atypical. Would like to hear others' experience with PrimoCache L2 + ReadyBoost. To make my request clearer, I will soon post a short summary of my setup, how the machine is used, and a few questions about how best to use PrimoCache with this situation.

Michael

[bilateral]

SUMMARY OF MACHINE AND SETUP:
Toshiba laptop--Core 2 Duo; 4 Gig DDR2 RAM (Max); 500 Gig WD Black 7200 RPM HDD (HDD is hard to change); Win 10 Home x64
ADDITIONAL STORAGE DEVICES: ExpressCard slot (uses onboard PCI-e) running 64 GB SSD. SD card slot with 32 GB SDHC card. (USB2 speeds.)

CURRENT USE:
Heavy use of Google Chrome browser with many tabs. MS Office (OneNote, Word, PowerPoint); Infrequent rebooting. Frequent use of SLeep, Hibernation.

CURRENT BOOST ATTEMPTS:
ReadyBoost on 32 GB of SSD, and 32 GB (all of the current) SD card; also 6 GB Paging file on the SSD; I've attempted to put Chrome Cache on the SSD, but it doesn't seem to stay there.

QUESTIONS ON USING PRIMOCACHE WITH THIS SETUP:
--How best to use the 64 GB ExpressCard SSD and 32 GB SDHC flash card?
--Should I keep Readyboost and also use PrimoCache L2? If so, how much GB to allocate to each device, for RB and for PC L2?
--Should I use ANY amount of my 4 GB of RAM for a PrimoCache L1? Or not take any away from Windows,--which with x64, in theory it should be using it all.
--Should I leave the 6 GB Virtual Memory file on the SSD as it is? Or leave most Paging there, but let the size be "System Managed"?
--Should I attempt again to set up a Chrome browser cache on the SSD (despite my experience of updates changing this back), or should I expect PrimoCache to take care of that?
--Any other files/folders I should consider moving to the SSD (TEMP?)

Michael

[Jaga]

Thanks, Jaga, some helpful ideas. Do you have any good references for how to move the temp folders to another drive and why to do it?

Here's perhaps the easiest and most comprehensive writeup on moving the Windows temp folders (both user and system): http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/23 ... ndows.html

I find Chrome will keep the temp location as long as I keep launching it from the same edited shortcut. It will even remember that if the system launches it from a shortcut (i.e. clicking on one in an email). It does make Chrome a lot snappier.

I don't know if I'd use hibernation, since that generates a lot of drive activity which would probably flush Primo's cache. Try sleep mode only, unless you want to move the hiberfile.sys over to the expresscard slot (which would really speed up coming out of hibernation).

The only other recommendation I can make would to be to have the paging file statically set to as small a size as you feel comfortable with. When Windows resizes it, it takes a hit to performance. 6gb should be fine, though 4gb may be just as usable.

Perhaps someone else would like to chime in with their recommendations.

[bilateral]

Here's perhaps the easiest and most comprehensive writeup on moving the Windows temp folders (both user and system): http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/23 ... ndows.html

Thanks. But from this, I'm not sure I see how moving the TEMP files folders will speed up the system. The reason given is to make more disk space available on C: drive. How does it help to put the TEMP files on a faster drive? I thought many of these files are used once and then discarded.

I find Chrome will keep the temp location as long as I keep launching it from the same edited shortcut.

I'll have to try this again. It might have been because of an upgrade to Windows 10 that it reverted. And it sounds like you think it is worth it to cache Chrome to a faster drive, even if using PrimoCache.

I don't know if I'd use hibernation, since that generates a lot of drive activity which would probably flush Primo's cache. Try sleep mode only, unless you want to move the hiberfile.sys over to the expresscard slot (which would really speed up coming out of hibernation).

Mmmm, I wonder about that. I thought hibernation is similar to sleep, except the data in memory is simply saved to the disk instead of being held in memory (at lower voltage). Good idea about moving hiberfile.sys. However, I haven't found a way to do this. I think someone suggested there is some way with a symbolic link, but otherwise I thought Windows wants to find hiberfile.sys in the root directory of the C: drive. And if I remember correctly, the problem is that recalling the hiberfile occurs before most of the operating system gets loaded, so maybe even symbolic link would not work.

[Edit: I found it--Here's the really clear explanation on why you can't move hiberfil.sys.--Info's a bit old, but still true:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/mag ... ntial.aspx ]

...have the paging file statically set to as small a size as you feel comfortable with. When Windows resizes it, it takes a hit to performance. 6gb should be fine, though 4gb may be just as usable.

Yes, thanks. I've been inclined for a long time to set it at a stable size rather than "system managed". However, it's so long since I took that advice from some article to do this, that I'd forgotten why I'm doing it!

Still hoping to get some advice from Support or anyone else about my other questions above, before setting up and doing my trial of PrimoCache.

Michael

[Axel Mertes]

If you want to leave out hibernation (freeing up a lot of disk space), you can do this:

1. Run "CMD" in administrator mode.
2. Enter "powercfg -h off" and hit return key. This will disable hibernation completely and free up the hiberfile from disk.

[bilateral]

Still hoping to get advice from Support on this before I try to set up PrimoCache, so I can give it a fair trial with my situation. It appears no one from Support has been here in a while. How often do they check in here?